Shanksville forest mostly burned after 9/11?

(Updated: 12/30/06)

“The trees beyond were still faintly smoldering but largely intact.” – Post-Gazette

Take a look again at the scope of the burnt forest section next to the fake crater in this FBI aerial taken on Sept. 12 that looks like it was taken sometime in the morning based on the shadows casted towards the west:

(Red dotted oval = fake crater. Blue dotted line = alleged flight path. Orange dotted line = small road. Green dotted line = forest damage)

I had previously speculated that all this fire damage resulted from something the military launched to crash on to the fake crater to simulate fire damage to it, but it accidentally bounced up off the ground and landed on this section of forest and that’s how some of the tops of the trees there got broken and how that section got burned even though it’s at a different trajectory from how we were told the alleged plane came in.

(Purple circle = left wingtip. Blue circle = vertical tail tip. Yellow circle = right wingtip. Red dotted line = trajectory of mystery object bouncing off fake crater and exploding into forest.)

However a couple things still stumped me about the burnt forest section:

1) How did that much of the forest catch on fire, but had reportedly stopped burning when the first people at the scene arrived 10-15 minutes after the explosion?

The only evidence of smoke still coming from above the forest is from this news clip.

2) How did that much of the forest catch fire without the ground below it catching fire?

See these photos that seem to illustrate this: photo 1, photo 2, photo 3

We never saw and there were no reports of any kind of forest fire like this even though a wall of jet fuel fire supposedly hit the forest from a plane crashing at a blistering 580mph:

Maybe there is an explanation to these anomalies. Maybe the section of burnt forest you see in the aerial photos did not initially have that much fire damage after whatever exploded there on 9/11, but perhaps was later set further on fire by the rescue crews (cover-up crews) at the scene, or burned some other way?

“Our goal right now is to preserve everything as it is for tonight,” Killeen said, adding that further investigation would continue in the morning.” - Daily Athenaeum (09/12/01)

Look again at that Sept. 12th aerial from the U.S. government’s site and look at how much of the forest was damaged and how some of the trees closest to the fake crater are thinned out and almost look removed:

Now look at this WTAE photo taken from a National Guard helicotper with PA's Gov. Tom Ridge on board that was taken after 6 p.m. on what looks like 9/11. See if you can see the extent of forest damage as in the above aerial or the proceeding aerials:

“Gov. Tom Ridge arrived about 6:15 p.m., flying over the crash scene in a National Guard helicopter before being briefed on the ground by state police.” – Post-Gazette

(Photo enlarged 100%. Red dotted oval = fake crater. Blue dotted line = alleged flight path. Orange dotted line = small road)

(Photo from Moussaoui trial [Hi-res]. Date taken unknown.)

(Above and below photos from usaattacked.com and said to be taken on Sept 22.)

Here is video of the scene on 9/11. Does the forest look very damaged to you?

To me, it looks unmistakable that the forest section seen in the early evening WTAE photo and the above video of the scene on the day of the attack looks no where as near as damaged as seen in all the other aerials taken after 9/11 which suggests the forest was further burned to give the illusion that there was more damage to the scene since the perps botched the crash scene up so bad on 9/11.

I don't know how the perps burned more of that section of forest, but it obviously had to be burned sometime during the night or early in the moring before that government's aerial was taken sometime on the morning of 9/12. I did notice that there seems to be no nighttime photos of the crash scene and FEMA didn’t even have any photos of Shanksville in their photo library where they have tons of photos of Ground Zero and the Pentagon.

Notice though that this photo that is supposedly taken on 9/12 is the first ground photo the shows the entire tree line and the sky! This one is weird because it doesn't look like the forest is very damaged (although it is hard to tell with the shadows) and there is still white smoldering at the same spot on 9/11 which the WTAE photo taken in the evening of 9/11 doesn't seem to show. Was this pic taken on 9/12?

(Photo from usaattacked.com said to be taken on Sept 12.)

See here for all the photos of the Shanksville botched crash scene I could find and try to see if you can find any evidence that counters my theory that the burnt forest section received most of it's damage after 9/11.

In the current Google Earth aerial, notice how all of the burnt forest section was cleared out afterward:

(Forest cleared out to about 70yds deep according to Google Earth.)

Shanksville students see 'fighter plane' seconds after explosion

John: We think it was shot down because as soon as it crashed a big fighter plane flew over the school.


Brian: We saw that [fighter] plane like right after it happened. We were the only ones who saw it pretty much from the school. Nobody one else saw.


Narrator: How long after did you guys see the fighter plane?


John: Like ten seconds. As soon as we saw the mushroom cloud, this plane goes flying over.


Brian: Right there. It was right after everything.

I stumbled on this clip from GNN’s UA 93: The Road To Shanksville (part 2). This is a HUGE smoking gun that these three students saw a 2nd plane in the area at the same time the explosion happened because the FBI’s story is that another plane didn’t come near the scene until “minutes” after the explosion which proves the FBI lied about there not being a 2nd plane at the crater scene.

Remember that at least ten people besides these three Shanksville students said they witnessed a mysterious 2nd plane in the area and two of these people, Susan Mcelwain and Tom Spinelli, said they saw it before the explosion.

Now don’t be distracted by the students belief that Flight 93 got shot down because no 757 crashed in Shanksville. Their belief that it was shot down would be natural since the heard a hijacked plane was flying in their area, they saw an explosion and seconds afterward a big fighter plane flew by.

What’s important is that their testimony proves a part of the official 9/11 story is a lie.

Also note that Shanksville is a military flight corridor and John Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County Airport that's about 19 miles from the crater is home to:

The John Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County (JMJCC) Airport is home to several military units. The airport houses the Pennsylvania Army National Guard 1-104th Attack Battalion (Company's A,C, D, and E). It also houses the 258th Air Traffic Control Squadron of the Pennsylvania Air National Guard, the Marine Wing Support Squadron 474, Detachment A, and the Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA) 775, Detachment A.[1] - Wikipedia

See also:

• UA 93: The Road To Shanksville (part 1 / part 2) - GNN

The metal scraps at Shanksville and more

(Update: 12/18/06)

Something just dawned on me even though it’s been starring me in the face all this time. Remember at the Shanksville botched crash scene that shows no recognizable debris coming from a 60 ton (when empty) 155 ft long Boeing 757 in plain site, but only small scraps of metal that were seen inside the cookie-cutout crater (but curiously none seen on the grass outside the crater) and strewn right next to and in the forest:

(Find photo sources here.)

Small scraps of metal were also what were mostly reported by first responders at the scene:

"There are just shreds of metal. The longest piece I saw was 2 feet long." - PittsburghLive (09/12/01)

"It just looked like somebody just dropped a bunch of metal out of the sky," Miller said. - Houston Chronicle (09/08/02)

“The best I can describe it is if you’ve ever been to a commercial landfill. When it’s covered and you have papers flying around. You have papers blowing around and bits and pieces of shredded metal." - PittsburghLive (09/14/01)

"If you would go down there, it would look like a trash heap," said state police Capt. Frank Monaco. "There's nothing but tiny pieces of debris. It's just littered with small pieces." - Post-Gazette (09/12/01)

"Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." - Washington Post (05/12/02)

Since the crash scene is obviously a fake, all these scraps of metal had to be planted, but also the perps had to get all these metal scraps from somewhere to plant. Now of course, any of the metal scraps that actually came from planes, the government would have access to past plane wreckage that are stored at their government facilities.

However, what if a bunch of the metal scraps are just plain old metal scraps? Where could the perps have gotten all the metal scraps they planted then collected from the scene?

(Notice how some of the metal scraps in this bin looked rusted.
Find photo source here.)

Well from a scrap yard of course, conveniently right next door:

(Rollock Inc - 156 Rollock Rd, Stoystown, PA, about .4 miles away: google map. Click photo for hi-res.)

"Some visitors to the Flight 93 temporary memorial look across the abandoned strip mine in Stonycreek Township and mistake the pile of scrap they see for debris from the hijacked jetliner.

The mangled heap of iron and steel actually belongs to Rollock Inc., a scrap metal business owned and managed by the father-and-son team of Tony and Chris Kordell of Bedford County.

The property they purchased three years ago abuts the crash site, which lies just several yards beyond the perimeter of the Kordells' land." – Pittsburgh Live (09/11/02)

A couple of curious notes about this scrap yard next door. Out of the dozens of witnesses who reported seeing a plane in the area, only one person, Lee Purbaugh, reportedly saw the aircraft actual hit the ground and he was working of course at Rollock on, get this, only his second day on the job! And I’m sure his ex-Navy background doesn’t make him sound any more suspicious.

Purbaugh also conflicts with the other witnesses by not reporting that this alleged plane had flipped over before crashing like a handful of witnesses claimed and also conflicts with them saying they saw it going down at a near 90 deg angle. Purbaugh said the plane he witnessed flew only 40-50ft over his head and coming in at “45 degrees” which would have been impossible even if the plane crashed at a 40 deg angle as Flight 93's FDR supposedly indicates because a 757 is 155 ft long and was reported to be traveling at whopping 580 mph, yet was able to supposedly dive down and burrow underground without displacing much dirt only about 400 yards away from him. Even if the plane had come in at 45 degrees but straightened some before flying 40-50 ft over his head, it would have been impossible for the 757 to have crashed even at a 40 deg angle in the split second it would have crashed after flying over that low over his head at its reported speed.

One thing about his testimony that doesn’t conflict with the other witnesses is that he too saw the suspicious unmarked small white plane in the area that was seen by at least nine others after the crash . . . and before!

Another note of curiosity about Rollock, the co-owner, Chris Kordell, claims to have been the first one to reach the crash scene, but interestingly was never reported there by the press even though the press did report that Kordell’s employee Lee Purbaugh was there:

Purbaugh, Stahl and the Merringers were at the site before state police crews and the Federal Bureau of investigation (FBI) arrived to secure the entire site as a crime scene immediately or be arrested.” - Daily American (09/12/01)

(Update: 12/18/06)

Another employee from Rollock, Mike Shepley, was working at the site and also claimed to see the plane zip by, but said it was going too fast to make out what it was. He said he went to the scene but “there was nothing there”, so he started direction traffic instead. He also says something very interesting in that the crash spot had “just been backfilled.” The Pittsburg Tribune-Review reported that the area had been abandoned in 1996, so I decided to call the owner of the crater area, Svonavec Inc, and happened to get to talk to Mike Svonavec. I had asked him when was the last time the area was touched and he confirmed with the Tribune-Review that the area hasn’t been touched since around 1996. Svonavec also said something interesting in that the term “soft dirt” given to the area there was a “relative” term.

"Mike [Shepley] was just backing a skid loader out of a building at Roloc when Flight 93 hit the ground. "I didn't really get to see it. It was going too fast and then hit the ground, just a whoosh and it hit the ground… The area in which the plane hit had just been backfilled. It must have gone in until it hit the highwall and was stopped by it… So then I went down to the crash site and my fire fighter skills took over. There was nothing down there. The first thing I could do was to direct traffic and get the crews in to get the fire out.”

(Click photo to see scanned pages from the book: ‘From Tragedy to Triumph’. Credit for find and scanning to Shoestring.)

See also:

• Did Flight 93 Crash in Shanksville?

On 911blog.org tonight

You can call in at the Skypecast link below (if there aren’t any technical difficulties).

Our Weekly Skypecast, Special Guest Killtown

911blog.org

Submitted by phillynet on December 9, 2006

Tonight 9PM Eastern

[6pm Pacific]

Please join us for this weeks Skypecast, be sure to use our Chat page for asking questions, requesting mic time etc...

Tonight we have Killtown as a guest. Killtown would like to focus on Flight 93 and has done some great research on the matter, http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html

Link to archived show.

McClatchey ‘condensed’ interview up on YouTube

If you couldn’t get through the original long 29:00 min version of Mrs. Val McClatchey being interviewed by Windsor Park Stories, I made* a condensed version to fit on YouTube.

If you haven't watched this interview of Val telling the story behind her "infamous" Flight 93 plume photo, it is a must. The story and presentation in this interview adds so much evidence to my claims about her photo being a fraud**, including opportunity, motive and even association with the FBI.

(Full printed version here.)

Also, for those of you who believe that when someone keeps looking up and to the left with their eyes when trying to recall an event that they are being less than honest, notice her eye movement throughout the video.

PS – How fast do you think this video will be axed from YouTube?

(*Special thanks for "Sureshot" and one other person at the old LC forum who I embarrassing forgot who it was for converting the original video.

**Meaning that the plume in her photo had to have originate from a different location which proves the official story a fraud, or the photo itself is a fraud.)

Doubletree Hotel video released; shows no plane

(BREAKING: Daughter of alleged Flight 77 pilot found dead from “suspicious” apartment fire just 3 days after Doubletree video released. Apt complex never had a fire related incident before.)

The Doubletree Hotel security video (map) was released today by CNN and just like the much anticipated CITGO video, it shows no plane (what a shock).

Along with the video showing no plane, the Pentagon building is also not seen because it is blocked by an overpass. Also, notice there is no timestamp on the security tape.





Interestingly enough, CNN was also the first to report the release of the five Pentagon security video images six months after the attacks and the first ones to obtain the images. Note that in 2000, WorldNetDaily had reported that CNN had hired Army psyops personnel.

I had wondered right before the elections if this video was going to be to help sway votes to the Republicans. I guess I know now why it wasn’t released then.

Lastly, Flight77.info was who forced the Doubletree video release, not Judicial Watch.

(Video still.)

See also:

• Did Flight 77 really crash into the Pentagon? – The crash videos