Shanksville forest mostly burned after 9/11?

(Updated: 12/30/06)

“The trees beyond were still faintly smoldering but largely intact.” – Post-Gazette

Take a look again at the scope of the burnt forest section next to the fake crater in this FBI aerial taken on Sept. 12 that looks like it was taken sometime in the morning based on the shadows casted towards the west:

(Red dotted oval = fake crater. Blue dotted line = alleged flight path. Orange dotted line = small road. Green dotted line = forest damage)

I had previously speculated that all this fire damage resulted from something the military launched to crash on to the fake crater to simulate fire damage to it, but it accidentally bounced up off the ground and landed on this section of forest and that’s how some of the tops of the trees there got broken and how that section got burned even though it’s at a different trajectory from how we were told the alleged plane came in.

(Purple circle = left wingtip. Blue circle = vertical tail tip. Yellow circle = right wingtip. Red dotted line = trajectory of mystery object bouncing off fake crater and exploding into forest.)

However a couple things still stumped me about the burnt forest section:

1) How did that much of the forest catch on fire, but had reportedly stopped burning when the first people at the scene arrived 10-15 minutes after the explosion?

The only evidence of smoke still coming from above the forest is from this news clip.

2) How did that much of the forest catch fire without the ground below it catching fire?

See these photos that seem to illustrate this: photo 1, photo 2, photo 3

We never saw and there were no reports of any kind of forest fire like this even though a wall of jet fuel fire supposedly hit the forest from a plane crashing at a blistering 580mph:

Maybe there is an explanation to these anomalies. Maybe the section of burnt forest you see in the aerial photos did not initially have that much fire damage after whatever exploded there on 9/11, but perhaps was later set further on fire by the rescue crews (cover-up crews) at the scene, or burned some other way?

“Our goal right now is to preserve everything as it is for tonight,” Killeen said, adding that further investigation would continue in the morning.” - Daily Athenaeum (09/12/01)

Look again at that Sept. 12th aerial from the U.S. government’s site and look at how much of the forest was damaged and how some of the trees closest to the fake crater are thinned out and almost look removed:

Now look at this WTAE photo taken from a National Guard helicotper with PA's Gov. Tom Ridge on board that was taken after 6 p.m. on what looks like 9/11. See if you can see the extent of forest damage as in the above aerial or the proceeding aerials:

“Gov. Tom Ridge arrived about 6:15 p.m., flying over the crash scene in a National Guard helicopter before being briefed on the ground by state police.” – Post-Gazette

(Photo enlarged 100%. Red dotted oval = fake crater. Blue dotted line = alleged flight path. Orange dotted line = small road)

(Photo from Moussaoui trial [Hi-res]. Date taken unknown.)

(Above and below photos from usaattacked.com and said to be taken on Sept 22.)

Here is video of the scene on 9/11. Does the forest look very damaged to you?

To me, it looks unmistakable that the forest section seen in the early evening WTAE photo and the above video of the scene on the day of the attack looks no where as near as damaged as seen in all the other aerials taken after 9/11 which suggests the forest was further burned to give the illusion that there was more damage to the scene since the perps botched the crash scene up so bad on 9/11.

I don't know how the perps burned more of that section of forest, but it obviously had to be burned sometime during the night or early in the moring before that government's aerial was taken sometime on the morning of 9/12. I did notice that there seems to be no nighttime photos of the crash scene and FEMA didn’t even have any photos of Shanksville in their photo library where they have tons of photos of Ground Zero and the Pentagon.

Notice though that this photo that is supposedly taken on 9/12 is the first ground photo the shows the entire tree line and the sky! This one is weird because it doesn't look like the forest is very damaged (although it is hard to tell with the shadows) and there is still white smoldering at the same spot on 9/11 which the WTAE photo taken in the evening of 9/11 doesn't seem to show. Was this pic taken on 9/12?

(Photo from usaattacked.com said to be taken on Sept 12.)

See here for all the photos of the Shanksville botched crash scene I could find and try to see if you can find any evidence that counters my theory that the burnt forest section received most of it's damage after 9/11.

In the current Google Earth aerial, notice how all of the burnt forest section was cleared out afterward:

(Forest cleared out to about 70yds deep according to Google Earth.)

Shanksville students see 'fighter plane' seconds after explosion

John: We think it was shot down because as soon as it crashed a big fighter plane flew over the school.


Brian: We saw that [fighter] plane like right after it happened. We were the only ones who saw it pretty much from the school. Nobody one else saw.


Narrator: How long after did you guys see the fighter plane?


John: Like ten seconds. As soon as we saw the mushroom cloud, this plane goes flying over.


Brian: Right there. It was right after everything.

I stumbled on this clip from GNN’s UA 93: The Road To Shanksville (part 2). This is a HUGE smoking gun that these three students saw a 2nd plane in the area at the same time the explosion happened because the FBI’s story is that another plane didn’t come near the scene until “minutes” after the explosion which proves the FBI lied about there not being a 2nd plane at the crater scene.

Remember that at least ten people besides these three Shanksville students said they witnessed a mysterious 2nd plane in the area and two of these people, Susan Mcelwain and Tom Spinelli, said they saw it before the explosion.

Now don’t be distracted by the students belief that Flight 93 got shot down because no 757 crashed in Shanksville. Their belief that it was shot down would be natural since the heard a hijacked plane was flying in their area, they saw an explosion and seconds afterward a big fighter plane flew by.

What’s important is that their testimony proves a part of the official 9/11 story is a lie.

Also note that Shanksville is a military flight corridor and John Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County Airport that's about 19 miles from the crater is home to:

The John Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County (JMJCC) Airport is home to several military units. The airport houses the Pennsylvania Army National Guard 1-104th Attack Battalion (Company's A,C, D, and E). It also houses the 258th Air Traffic Control Squadron of the Pennsylvania Air National Guard, the Marine Wing Support Squadron 474, Detachment A, and the Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron (HMLA) 775, Detachment A.[1] - Wikipedia

See also:

• UA 93: The Road To Shanksville (part 1 / part 2) - GNN

The metal scraps at Shanksville and more

(Update: 12/18/06)

Something just dawned on me even though it’s been starring me in the face all this time. Remember at the Shanksville botched crash scene that shows no recognizable debris coming from a 60 ton (when empty) 155 ft long Boeing 757 in plain site, but only small scraps of metal that were seen inside the cookie-cutout crater (but curiously none seen on the grass outside the crater) and strewn right next to and in the forest:

(Find photo sources here.)

Small scraps of metal were also what were mostly reported by first responders at the scene:

"There are just shreds of metal. The longest piece I saw was 2 feet long." - PittsburghLive (09/12/01)

"It just looked like somebody just dropped a bunch of metal out of the sky," Miller said. - Houston Chronicle (09/08/02)

“The best I can describe it is if you’ve ever been to a commercial landfill. When it’s covered and you have papers flying around. You have papers blowing around and bits and pieces of shredded metal." - PittsburghLive (09/14/01)

"If you would go down there, it would look like a trash heap," said state police Capt. Frank Monaco. "There's nothing but tiny pieces of debris. It's just littered with small pieces." - Post-Gazette (09/12/01)

"Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." - Washington Post (05/12/02)

Since the crash scene is obviously a fake, all these scraps of metal had to be planted, but also the perps had to get all these metal scraps from somewhere to plant. Now of course, any of the metal scraps that actually came from planes, the government would have access to past plane wreckage that are stored at their government facilities.

However, what if a bunch of the metal scraps are just plain old metal scraps? Where could the perps have gotten all the metal scraps they planted then collected from the scene?

(Notice how some of the metal scraps in this bin looked rusted.
Find photo source here.)

Well from a scrap yard of course, conveniently right next door:

(Rollock Inc - 156 Rollock Rd, Stoystown, PA, about .4 miles away: google map. Click photo for hi-res.)

"Some visitors to the Flight 93 temporary memorial look across the abandoned strip mine in Stonycreek Township and mistake the pile of scrap they see for debris from the hijacked jetliner.

The mangled heap of iron and steel actually belongs to Rollock Inc., a scrap metal business owned and managed by the father-and-son team of Tony and Chris Kordell of Bedford County.

The property they purchased three years ago abuts the crash site, which lies just several yards beyond the perimeter of the Kordells' land." – Pittsburgh Live (09/11/02)

A couple of curious notes about this scrap yard next door. Out of the dozens of witnesses who reported seeing a plane in the area, only one person, Lee Purbaugh, reportedly saw the aircraft actual hit the ground and he was working of course at Rollock on, get this, only his second day on the job! And I’m sure his ex-Navy background doesn’t make him sound any more suspicious.

Purbaugh also conflicts with the other witnesses by not reporting that this alleged plane had flipped over before crashing like a handful of witnesses claimed and also conflicts with them saying they saw it going down at a near 90 deg angle. Purbaugh said the plane he witnessed flew only 40-50ft over his head and coming in at “45 degrees” which would have been impossible even if the plane crashed at a 40 deg angle as Flight 93's FDR supposedly indicates because a 757 is 155 ft long and was reported to be traveling at whopping 580 mph, yet was able to supposedly dive down and burrow underground without displacing much dirt only about 400 yards away from him. Even if the plane had come in at 45 degrees but straightened some before flying 40-50 ft over his head, it would have been impossible for the 757 to have crashed even at a 40 deg angle in the split second it would have crashed after flying over that low over his head at its reported speed.

One thing about his testimony that doesn’t conflict with the other witnesses is that he too saw the suspicious unmarked small white plane in the area that was seen by at least nine others after the crash . . . and before!

Another note of curiosity about Rollock, the co-owner, Chris Kordell, claims to have been the first one to reach the crash scene, but interestingly was never reported there by the press even though the press did report that Kordell’s employee Lee Purbaugh was there:

Purbaugh, Stahl and the Merringers were at the site before state police crews and the Federal Bureau of investigation (FBI) arrived to secure the entire site as a crime scene immediately or be arrested.” - Daily American (09/12/01)

(Update: 12/18/06)

Another employee from Rollock, Mike Shepley, was working at the site and also claimed to see the plane zip by, but said it was going too fast to make out what it was. He said he went to the scene but “there was nothing there”, so he started direction traffic instead. He also says something very interesting in that the crash spot had “just been backfilled.” The Pittsburg Tribune-Review reported that the area had been abandoned in 1996, so I decided to call the owner of the crater area, Svonavec Inc, and happened to get to talk to Mike Svonavec. I had asked him when was the last time the area was touched and he confirmed with the Tribune-Review that the area hasn’t been touched since around 1996. Svonavec also said something interesting in that the term “soft dirt” given to the area there was a “relative” term.

"Mike [Shepley] was just backing a skid loader out of a building at Roloc when Flight 93 hit the ground. "I didn't really get to see it. It was going too fast and then hit the ground, just a whoosh and it hit the ground… The area in which the plane hit had just been backfilled. It must have gone in until it hit the highwall and was stopped by it… So then I went down to the crash site and my fire fighter skills took over. There was nothing down there. The first thing I could do was to direct traffic and get the crews in to get the fire out.”

(Click photo to see scanned pages from the book: ‘From Tragedy to Triumph’. Credit for find and scanning to Shoestring.)

See also:

• Did Flight 93 Crash in Shanksville?

On 911blog.org tonight

You can call in at the Skypecast link below (if there aren’t any technical difficulties).

Our Weekly Skypecast, Special Guest Killtown

911blog.org

Submitted by phillynet on December 9, 2006

Tonight 9PM Eastern

[6pm Pacific]

Please join us for this weeks Skypecast, be sure to use our Chat page for asking questions, requesting mic time etc...

Tonight we have Killtown as a guest. Killtown would like to focus on Flight 93 and has done some great research on the matter, http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html

Link to archived show.

McClatchey ‘condensed’ interview up on YouTube

If you couldn’t get through the original long 29:00 min version of Mrs. Val McClatchey being interviewed by Windsor Park Stories, I made* a condensed version to fit on YouTube.

If you haven't watched this interview of Val telling the story behind her "infamous" Flight 93 plume photo, it is a must. The story and presentation in this interview adds so much evidence to my claims about her photo being a fraud**, including opportunity, motive and even association with the FBI.

(Full printed version here.)

Also, for those of you who believe that when someone keeps looking up and to the left with their eyes when trying to recall an event that they are being less than honest, notice her eye movement throughout the video.

PS – How fast do you think this video will be axed from YouTube?

(*Special thanks for "Sureshot" and one other person at the old LC forum who I embarrassing forgot who it was for converting the original video.

**Meaning that the plume in her photo had to have originate from a different location which proves the official story a fraud, or the photo itself is a fraud.)

Doubletree Hotel video released; shows no plane

(BREAKING: Daughter of alleged Flight 77 pilot found dead from “suspicious” apartment fire just 3 days after Doubletree video released. Apt complex never had a fire related incident before.)

The Doubletree Hotel security video (map) was released today by CNN and just like the much anticipated CITGO video, it shows no plane (what a shock).

Along with the video showing no plane, the Pentagon building is also not seen because it is blocked by an overpass. Also, notice there is no timestamp on the security tape.





Interestingly enough, CNN was also the first to report the release of the five Pentagon security video images six months after the attacks and the first ones to obtain the images. Note that in 2000, WorldNetDaily had reported that CNN had hired Army psyops personnel.

I had wondered right before the elections if this video was going to be to help sway votes to the Republicans. I guess I know now why it wasn’t released then.

Lastly, Flight77.info was who forced the Doubletree video release, not Judicial Watch.

(Video still.)

See also:

• Did Flight 77 really crash into the Pentagon? – The crash videos

Cleaned up comments on 9/11 rescuer interview

I just cleaned up and got rid of most of the useless comments posted by all the trolls and troublemakers in my interview with EMT Patricia Ondrovic:

9/11 Rescuer Saw Explosions Inside WTC 6 Lobby

I’d rather not have to delete comments, but I’ve learned since that some people post comments just to try to sabotage important information. Sorry for not doing this sooner and sorry if I accidentally deleted any comments that weren't "troll" comments. I’ve implemented some steps to try to prevent this from happening like this in the future.

For those who have not yet read Ms. Ondrovic’s interview, please take a moment and read through it. It’s fascinating and “explosive”!

YouTube axes four of my WTC 7 videos

YouTube removes four of my WTC 7 videos because of complaints by CBS:

Dear Member:

This is to notify you that we have removed or disabled access to the following material as a result of a third-party notification by CBS Broadcasting, Inc claiming that this material is infringing:

WTC 7 imploding on 9/11 - CBS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO-UnwqhtMc

WTC 7 imploding on 9/11 - CBS K-EYE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMaCHzO1h1k

WTC 7 imploding - Dan Rather comments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BcquyD_DcQ

WTC 7 - East Penthouse Imploding First - TNN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4SejBwgbCw

New 9/11 site and forum: StudyOf911.com

A new 9/11 site and forum has “officially” opened that is well laid out and looks promising to be a good place for all 9/11 researchers to convene. Please check it out and register at their forum:

StudyOf911.com - forum

If the Shanksville dirt was hard

See: Did Flight 93 Crash in Shanksville?

FBI delaying Doubletree video release

(Update 2: Video released early on 12/02/06.
Update 1: “The planned release date of this video is December 21, 2006.” - flight77.info)


I had suggested five days before last Tuesday’s election that the Doubletree hotel’s security video that was rumored to have captured the plane crashing into the Pentagon might be released before the elections to help “shock & awe” the voters to help swing the elections to the Republicans since they were headed for a humiliating defeat and might even lose control of congress (which happened).

Now the government is delaying the release of this video that was promised to be released at the latest on 11/9 (yes, that date is correct). I guess they haven’t quite finished touching up that plane:

Nov 8, 2006

Contact: Press Office

202-646-5188

JUDICIAL WATCH UPDATE: FBI granted extension for release of 9/11 videotape.

The FBI has been granted an extension for the release of the 9/11 Doubletree Videotape. The tape is to be produced to Judicial Watch by December 22, 2006 and will be released to the public.

Judicial Watch has already obtained and released two other videotapes related to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Click here to view the footage.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/6030.shtml

Faked Shanksville crater and the burnt forest section

See here for new evidence of the burnt forest section: Shanksville forest mostly burned after 9/11?


(Updated: 12/30/06)

It should be obvious by now that no Boeing 757 crashed and caused the Wile E. Coyote crater in the ground in Shanksville, PA because of the almost perfect wing impressions in the ground, a faint tail imprint in the grass but no tail section, the small amount of dirt displaced, the lack of debris from a 155ft plane, and the lack of fire damage to the grass around the crater from the supposed 5,500 gal of jet fuel on board at impact.

(Purple circle = left wingtip; blue circle = vertical tail tip; yellow circle = right wingtip. Service road is left of purple circle. Remember that the 757 supposedly flipped on its belly and crashed almost 90 deg downward according to multiple witnesses. Also, notice that whatever made the impression in the grass in the shape of a tail didn’t penetrate the ground and then completely vanished.)


The crater obviously had to have been made some other way and I’d speculate the most logical way is that is was made similar to how the crater was made for A&E’s Flight 93. But what's important to remember is that as long as a 757 didn’t create the crater, what did is a moot point.

(Man-made crater from A&E’s Flight 93.)

However, what I’ve always wondered was how did only the middle of this fake crater and a small section of forest catch on fire, but hardly any of (if any at all) the grass around the crater, or the grass in between the crater and the burnt forest section where the small service road is?

Furthering this weirdness is that the trajectory of the burnt forest section doesn’t even align with the trajectory of the alleged flight path.

(Green dotted line = fire damage; Purple circle = left wingtip; blue arrow = flight path; yellow circle = right wingtip. Map from Popular Mechanics)

It’s as if something was launched into the middle of the crater at a slightly different angle to cause fire damage around the crater to help make it look like a plane had actually crashed there, but instead this projectile bounced off up and over the section of grass and small service road in between the forest and then exploded into the trees. And I think this is what happened.

Take a close look at the displaced dirt in the crater. Notice that the displaced dirt looks it was pushed in one direction leaving a ramp-like shape.

(See video clip of this aerial shot.)

*** See all original crater and aerial photos here ***

So if some kind of projectile was launched into the middle of the crater and bounced in the direction the pushed dirt is pointing to, its trajectory lines up perfectly with the small section of burnt forest.

If this sounds a little way out there, look what one of the officials at the scene was trying to pass off to us and notice he describes what I am saying in that an object came down at a 45-degree angle on bounced off into the woulds even though witness reports said the plane they saw was coming down at nearly 90-degrees:

“Miller recalled his arrival at the crash site about 20 minutes after the plane plummeted to the earth and described how the aircraft came down at a 45-degree angle. He explained how the cockpit broke off at impact, bouncing into a wooded area of about 60 acres. The resulting fireball scorched about eight acres of trees, he said.” - Pittsburghlive.com (05/30/02)

It makes perfect sense as to why something looks like it hit the middle of the crater and bounced off in a perfect trajectory towards the burnt forest and why that forest section is at a different trajectory than how the alleged 757 supposedly came in caught fire, but the grass and service road between the crater and the burnt forest section was not touched by any burning jet fuel.

It would also explain how some of the burnt trees closet to the crater had their tops broken.

FOX News reporter: It looks like there's nothing there, except for a hole in the ground.

Photographer Chris Konicki: Ah, basically that's right. The only thing you can see from where we where, ah, was a big gouge in the earth and some broken trees.” – FOX video (09/11/01)

Lastly it may also explain what the small white mysterious jet with the “military” look was doing at the crash scene before the explosion as multiple people witnesses and was seen coming in over Indian Lake which is the opposite direction Flight 93 supposedly came it.

The only thing left to wonder about is how the middle of the crater caught on fire if whatever bounced off from the middle of it only exploded in the forest. Noticed that none of the tall grass growing right up against the rim of the crater caught on fire which suggests no large fire was in the crater. Maybe the inside of the crater was doused was fuel before hand and caught fire as the projectile landed in it and then accidentally bounced and exploded into the burnt forest section.

That might also explain why some of the dirt in the carved out crater doesn't look like it was touched by fire and why some of the dirt in the crater looks "old" as if it was carved up well before Sept. 11.

However, it doesn’t really matter because it’s clear that no 757 caused any of this.

See also:

• Did Flight 93 Crash in Shanksville? – Killtown
• Flight 93 Image Gallery

Doubletree video release to 'shock & awe' before election?

(Update 2: Video finally released on 12/02/06.
Update 1: FBI delaying Doubletree video release.)

The much anticipated release of the Doubletree Hotel security video that has been speculated it will show a Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon is due to be released by one week from today the latest:

“The FBI has agreed to release to Judicial Watch a videotape obtained from the Doubletree Hotel near the Pentagon by November 9, 2006.” - Judicial Watch

View from Doubletree Hotel restaurant showing the Pentagon (red arrow). Source.

This is thought to be the same security video that Doubletree employees watched in "shock and horror" over and over again before the FBI came and confiscated it reportedly the next day:

“A security camera atop a hotel close to the Pentagon may have captured dramatic footage of the hijacked Boeing 757 airliner as it slammed into the western wall of the Pentagon. Hotel employees sat watching the film in shock and horror several times before the FBI confiscated the video as part of its investigation.” - Inside the Ring/Gertz File (09/21/01)

(Red line shows alleged flight path of Flight 77. Aerial photo compliments of PentagonResearch.com.)

Now, the Republicans are heading for a big loss in the upcoming election in five days from today and Bush has resorted to the favorite NeoCon tactic of playing the terrorism card to strike up fear in voters:

Republican loss is win for terrorism — Bush

“A week before key midterm elections, US President George Bush was in Georgia yesterday to bolster his Republican Party’s chances even as the soaring US death toll in Iraq undercuts his claim to be winning the war.

A day after Bush charged in Texas, his home state, that “terrorists win and America loses” if opposition Democrats capture the November 7 legislative elections, the US October toll in Iraq jumped to 103, the fourth-highest monthly toll since the March 2003 invasion.

~

But polls predicted Democrats would overcome the heightened rhetoric and recapture control of the house of representatives after 12 years, and possibly the senate, which could hobble the Bush administration’s last two years.” – Business Day (11/01/06)

So how much do you want to bet that this Doubletree Hotel security video will be released before this Tuesday (election day) to “shock & awe” the voters in hopes to sway the elections, especially if this video finally shows a plane hitting the Pentagon?

Remember that I had predicted in early 2004 that if Bush was losing in the poles right before the elections, Osama bin Laden would be "found dead or alive” which would sway the election to Bush. My prediction essential became true when four days before the elections, the first video of bin Laden publicly taking credit for 9/11 which boosted Bush’s poll ratings in Ohio which lead to him being re-elected.

--------------------------------------------

Note that if this video does indeed show a plane flying into the Pentagon, it will not actually show the plane hit, but in fact will show it disappear behind the Pentagon’s west wall (see aerial photo above) and then a fireball will obviously be seen coming up over the roof. This will be very similar to what was seen with the first video of the 2nd WTC crash shown “live” on TV which shows a plane (with no discernible markings) come across the screen and disappear behind the North Tower (which is blocking the view of the South Tower) and then a fireball is seen erupting from the other side.

See also:

• The fabricated Pentagon security video – Killtown

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